'33 Steering Box

[Oxford Jack]

One thing I found when working on A7 steering boxes is that replacing the felt bush at the top of the column with Bronze bush really improved the steering on the road.

I've also had the problem of the steering wheel going too far down the spline, I turned up a thin ring dimensioned on the inside to fit in the groove at the top of the column and dimensioned on the outside to be a snug fit in the steering wheel recess. When this ring  is cut in half, both bits can be inserted and you can tighten the wheel against this ring without it binding on the column.

Hi Stuart,
Two interesting suggestions there. I have a lathe, but am not an experienced turner. The wall thickness of a top bush would seem to be very thin, presumably it should also match the back of the steering column where the bush comes out of the outer column. Do you have more info on how you achieved this please?
Regarding the thin split ring, which sounds an excellent solution, any further suggestions as to method would be helpfulThanks you

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Oxford Jack,
I did this and it helped. I also extended the steering arm at the axle to change the ratio to a more manageable one.
Whatever you do setting it up is the important thing.



Paul N-M

Hello Paul,
Thank you for the information and photos, what an exquisite solution yours seems.
A couple of questions please. Do you recall the size and source of needle roller thrust washers? Above the worm, I assume that you left the outer column bottom bush in place, so did you then also put the steel washer in as well?, Did you remove the upper worm washer and pin or rely on the washer/thrust ring that comes with the bearing?
Below the worm, I assume you left the bottom housing brass face in place and used the steel thrust washer above the bearing?
I see that you also have fitted an end extension to the inner column and made a brass bearing housing outside the box. I assume you did not need to keep the control tubes, which I hope to retain?
Adding two thrust bearings and possibly facing washers probably extends the overall length of the worm in the steering box, did that have any effect on how the outer column screwed into the steering box or have any knock on effects please?
Thank you for the photos, it is an enormous help.

[Jeff Taylor]

Hi Jack, apologies for serious topic drift, but did your friend ever manage to get in touch with John Martin Young in Oxford a former owner of my Morris 8 Tourer re any photos he might have had of the car when in his ownership ?

Cheers Jeff.

[Oxford Jack]

Your top felt needs to be oily.
Hope that is helpful.

"Oh Matron, you are naughty, but I like you"

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Thank you all Stuart, Reckless, Zeto, Howard and Jeff for the suggestions and comments. The outer column is not dented, I had spent hours reading all the old posts, my long felt want appears to be nice and oily and yes I do still have a couple of M8's, although one was sold before Christmas. However all and any comments/suggestions are welcome, I also had calls from the Bearded Wizard and Ron Hayhurst, both of which made suggestions which I will check.
I hope I will eventually, perhaps soon be able to report back that the problem has gone, even if I don't know why!

[Paul N-M]

Hi Oxford Jack,
Thank you for your kind comment and I will try and answer your questions in order.
The needle roller sets came from Simply Bearings and are standard imperial sizes that suit the required i.d & o.d.
Steel washers used with needles. They come as sets. I felt there could be rapid wear on the bronze if not.
From memory the ring at the top of the worm was retained.
Again from memory I think I disguarded the thrust washer below the worm but you could use the same bearing thrust washers if you needed to shim up. These can be bought individually from SB.
I did not need to retain the stator tubes so could close off the end which allowed me to support the worm at both ends and not just the column base. Leather washer was retained at column head.
No issues with fitting and adjusting the outer column.

Hope this helps and good luck.

Paul N-M

[Robin Oldfield]

Hello Jack.  I don't suppose I can add anything to the words of wisdom so far imparted other than to refer you to pages 180-181 of the 'Companion' where it says that, in respect of castor angle, excess rake will make hard work of cornering.  Twisting of the radius arms is a solution to incorrect rake so could yours have twisted inadvertently?

[Stuart Giles]

One thing I found when working on A7 steering boxes is that replacing the felt bush at the top of the column with Bronze bush really improved the steering on the road.

I've also had the problem of the steering wheel going too far down the spline, I turned up a thin ring dimensioned on the inside to fit in the groove at the top of the column and dimensioned on the outside to be a snug fit in the steering wheel recess. When this ring  is cut in half, both bits can be inserted and you can tighten the wheel against this ring without it binding on the column.

Hi Stuart,
Two interesting suggestions there. I have a lathe, but am not an experienced turner. The wall thickness of a top bush would seem to be very thin, presumably it should also match the back of the steering column where the bush comes out of the outer column. Do you have more info on how you achieved this please?
Regarding the thin split ring, which sounds an excellent solution, any further suggestions as to method would be helpfulThanks you

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Yes, the bush is very thin, I just used an offcut of Bronze round bar, but you could probably use a bit of Aluminium alloy, there isn't a great deal of load on the bush; there will be a lot less friction on a metal bush than of a piece of felt. Basically drill out the piece of round in your lathe to near size, then use a boring tool to bore it to about 3 thou over the column diameter. Machine the outside of the bush to 1 thou oversize to the steering column tube bore. Warm the steering column tube with a heat gun, you should be able to drop in your bush. The steering column should be a nice running fit in the bush, if there's any stiffness, put a thin smear of blue on the column, rotate it in the bush and use a bearing scraper on the blued bits, Try the column again, if it still doesn't rotate really easily blue and scape it again. TBH, it's probably easier to do this job than write it up.

Re. the steering wheel issue, on all the columns I've seen there's a square section groove just below the spline on the steering column. I presume that the factory put it there to make the spline easier for them to broach. All I did was measure the diameter at the bottom of this groove, and then measure the width of the groove. Once you've done this, measure the diameter of the recess in your steering wheel. Put a piece of mild steel in your lathe chuck that's bigger than the diameter of the recess in your steering wheel. Machine the outside of the steel to a couple of thou smaller than the diameter of the steering wheel recess over a length of 3/8" or so. Now drill your piece of steel to just under the diameter of the steering column recess; a hole depth of about 7/16" would be good. With a boring tool, open out the hole to a few thou over the steering column recess diameter. Now using the boring tool again, bore a recess about 3/32" deep which ends up a few thou over the column diameter. It's important that the end of this recess is square as it needs to be a snug fit in the groove. You should now have a stepped hole in the steel. Now part off the piece of steel such that the length of the smaller diameter "step" is not less than the width of the steering column recess. It doesn't matter if it's a bit wider at this point because you can machine it back to size once parted it off, or even use a file if you're not confident of holding very short piece of material in the lathe. The whole piece of material should now be about 3/16" long or less. Now if you cut the ring in half with a hacksaw, such that you have 2 semi circles, the 2 halves can be slotted into the column groove. Hold these in place with one hand while you slide on the steering wheel down the spline and the two halves of the steel ring will be trapped by the steering wheel recess when you tighten the steering column nut. This should fix your problem permanently.

[Oxford Jack]

Thank you all for your responses, I have yet to try some of the suggestions to do with castor angle, shock absorber tension etc because the car is on stands in the workshop while I deal with the column.
I mentioned that I had previously had a new inner column fitted to my outer column. With everything spotlessly clean and dry I found that the outer bottom bush was a little tight on the inner, just above the worm. Lubricating helped but a whip over with emery seemed to make a lot of difference.
I resolved that despite opinions differing on the use of thrust bearings etc, I would try it, since it does not involve much expense and no irreversible mechanical changes. There were other suggestions which were either beyond my turning skills or I found other ways to resolve, so in case it is of interest or use to someone else here is where I are.
I trawled through the Simply Bearings site and found everything I needed, in almost every case in a usable size. Needle roller thrust bearings, bronze bush, and snap rings, which I had not known about before.
I had managed to remove the wheel from the drop arm with a three leg puller, turn it one sector and reassemble, I dont think it had been off before.

  DSCN6875.jpg (Size: 66.83 KB / Downloads: 267)
The available top thrust needle bearing is a perfect fit on the inner and existing bearing faces

  DSCN6876.jpg (Size: 66.49 KB / Downloads: 267)
Here it is fitted.

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Lower bearing and spacer ring

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Fitted

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Outer column top, bush and snap ring

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This is the snap ring inserted into the outer which will retain the felt

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Steering wheel snap ring and bush in place

  DSCN6885.jpg (Size: 66.52 KB / Downloads: 259)

With the steering column screw into the box all end float could be removed without any binding when turning the steering wheel. The column is now approx. 7mm further out of the box, so I had to drill a shallow hole to accommodate the end of the locking peg.
The thrust button had already been shimmed correctly, so the wheel and cover were put on and adjusted. I used Penrite steering box lub. There is free turning with about 1/64" play on the end of the drop arm. If I spin the steering wheel I can keep it going by pressing on the drop arm for about ¼ of a turn of the arm. I hope this will be a good adjustment once its all back in the car. I have a rebuilt engine to fit in place of the previous military crankcase item, this needs a longer prop shaft and returning the floor to its original configuration, so it will be a little while until I can try it all out.
Thanks again for all the comments and suggestions both online and offline.

[Ruairidh Dunford]

Nice work Jack.

Before installing, do check the stator tubes protrude sufficiently to attach the levers at the bottom end.

[Oxford Jack]

Good point, thanks for the thought

[Ivor Hawkins]

I hunted high and low to help you out Jack, as I have a spare column and box somewhere, but your beautifully engineered solution beat me to it!