Joined: Aug 2017 Posts: 1,230 Threads: 33
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6 Location: Salop
Car type: '28 GE Cup. '28 AD Chummy '30 RL Saloon. '34 RP Saloon. Too Many toys!
04-02-2021, 03:14 PM (This post was last modified: 04-02-2021, 03:14 PM by Reckless Rat.)
From my own point of view, given my previous experience in accident investigation I would advise against trying to fit seat belts in any classic vehicle. The law relating to Seat Belt fitting and Use will kick in, which requires specific strengthened mounting points capable of withstanding the kinetic forces put on a restraint during a collision and the degree of modification necessary to achieve this end, whilst it might satify an MOT tester's perusal will definitely NOT pass an experienced crash investigators scrutiny.
The fitting of any accessory subject to legislative requirements (UK vehicles prior to 1965 are exempt seat belt legislation completely) means that:
a) if fitted, it must be used
and b) it must comply with Construction & Use requirements and/Type Approval.
What could ensue, in the event of a serious accident involving such a modified vehicle, a "defective" seat belt fitting could render the owner/user of the vehicle vicariously liable in law and subject to the application of civil law in respect of damages for any injury thus occasioned notwithstanding that they may not be responsable for the accident.
In addition, the non-notification of the modification to the insurer of the vehicle would most likely void the cover, thereby exacerbating the financial penalty on the owner and/or driver.
Joined: Aug 2017 Posts: 1,230 Threads: 33
Reputation:
6 Location: Salop
Car type: '28 GE Cup. '28 AD Chummy '30 RL Saloon. '34 RP Saloon. Too Many toys!
There must be 1960s cars in the UK with original belts which do not meet current mounting reqmts etc. Are the belts reqd to be removed?
Unless records are kept an older style belt and fitting can appear as if been there for decades. A problem is finding good old style belts or material to replace and someone to stitch.
With the door open I suapect just .5 lateral G or less would eject an occupant
04-02-2021, 08:46 PM (This post was last modified: 04-02-2021, 09:01 PM by Reckless Rat.
Edit Reason: de in my earlier post about
)
Bob we're not talking about 1960s cars here we're talking about retrofitting seat belts to a 1930s car which was never intended nor designed to have them fitted. I doubt very much that any part of an Austin Seven tourer body is ever likely to be capable of withstanding the force necessary in current seat belt design (which it should, if the seat belt system is to conform with current legislation). Let me give you an example. There are type approval guidelines laid down for retro fitting of seat belts into mini-buses. The lap and diagonal mounts are required it to withstand a force of 6.75kN which in laymen's terms means it will have to withstand a force of over 6 1/2 tonnes without failing. You would pull the body off the chassis if you exerted that degree of loading to an A7 bodyshell, and perhaps even wreck the chassis too. It's just not designed for it.
There is no doubt that 1960s design criteria do not conform to current standards, but that's progress. However I would be very wary of the serviceability of any seatbelt from that era still being used. These devices must carry approval marks and cannot be made up in a backstreet workshop.
The retro- fitting of seat belts to a car that does not legally have to be so fitted places a legal responsibility on the person so doing to ensure that they are fit for purpose and conform to the legislation currently in place. However, how far down the road do you want to go? Airbags? ABS? crushable passenger cells? collapsable steering columns? anti-burst door locks? side protection? etc. The list is almost endless and our cars have none of it. That's just how they were, and probably best that they remain like that.
Like I said, the wish to protect yourself is laudable but I come back to the comments I made in my earlier post about vicarious liability in civil proceedings. Do it at your own risk.
I would like to thank all who contributed to my query regarding the fitting of seat belts to an A7 tourer. The laws here in Oz are, I think, very similar to those in GB and the thought of the possible legal quagmires which may ensue from any incident do not bear thinking about. Again I thank you.
Cheers,
PeterA
