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I'm toying with the idea of putting a close ratio gearbox in the Pearl when I replace the engine. The engine will be very much standard spec, though carefully assembled to provide best performance. The idea is that I have a gearbox more suitable for European touring, or at least, touring in hilly areas, and will provide a higher ratio third gear.
There seem to be three sets of gears available - A Super Accessories set, a Nippy set, then an 'intermediate' set that sits somewhere between the 2. Does anyone have any real life experiences of running a touring car on any of the above? I'd like to make the right choice to start with. I'll be sticking with a 5.25 rear axle and it will just be 2 up and luggage..
Thoughts?
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Location: Sheffield South Yorks
Car type: 1932 RN saloon
18-10-2018, 01:47 PM
(This post was last modified: 18-10-2018, 01:48 PM by Dave Wortley.)
Hugh,
I have had a Super Accessories 4 speed box in my all alloy pretend Ulster for the last 25 years. I live in Sheffield and use the car in the Peak District and find that 3rd gear is too high around these parts. Ok for overtaking on the flat roads but a lower 3rd would be better. Makes a very nice whine in the intermediate gears.
Cheers,
Dave.
It has a mildy tuned engine, Nippy type Zenith and 5.25 axle.
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Thanks Dave, I rather thought the Super Accessories set would be too high geared, so it's good to have that confirmed. My understanding is that those ratios are better suited to circuit cars and similar...
So that's that choice eliminated...
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(18-10-2018, 02:37 PM)Hugh Barnes Wrote: Thanks Dave, I rather thought the Super Accessories set would be too high geared, so it's good to have that confirmed. My understanding is that those ratios are better suited to circuit cars and similar...
So that's that choice eliminated...
Hugh, if you are going into really hilly country like the alps a modified 2nd gear may be the thing to concentrate on — at least that was our experience last year. Our traveling companions Jack and Amanda had an “ Andes “ set of gears and could outclimb us in second unless the gradient required a drop to first.
I think a close ratio third is a must with a lightweight sporty Seven but you may find yourself using second more in your production car.
Charles
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As I understand it, the Nippy ratios give higher 1st, 2nd and 3rd though I'm not sure how they compare with the Andes config. Is an Andes box *just* a different second gear ratio or do others change as well?
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Worth speaking to Andrew Bird, he is a specialist in this area and has a wealth of knowledge, he should be able to advise you.
AB is going to be replacing the gears in my Ruby gearbox (my spare is running in the car right now) to give me a Super Accessories gears.
My problem is that the standard third gear in a synchromesh 4-speed (2-3-4) is just too low for hill climbing, the engine is revving too hard, change up into fourth, circa 28/30 mph, no good, back down again, a better suited ratios should improve the need to do the gear change and make better use of the engine revs. I am hopeful!
For me, here in the very congested south coast, driving slowly going up hills in heavy traffic is not an acceptable option, the car needs to be able to make reasonable progress under all conditions - there are a lot of hills around me!
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Andrew Bird does a 4 speed close ratio conversion for heavy saloons, and this is what I have in one of our RN saloons, and I like it, coming up to a corner I just change down into third and give some whellie, whereas with a standard 4 speed you either chug round in top and scream the nuts off the engine in third. Also on those long gradual hills it will accelerate up into top. It also handles Malcolm Parker's Pennine run and the likes with ease. Initially I tried a Nippy conversion but that was no good lifting first, second & third too high.
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Location: Darkest Bedfordshire
Hugh, the message I hope you are taking away from the above is that the 'right' gearing depends very much on what you plan to do with the car.
A CR box will be great on the flat or shallow hills, but when you hit the steep stuff (Alpine hairpins) you will be down in 2nd, possibly 1st & chatting with cyclists. The option I went for myself was a 4-spd crash box which in fact has a lower 3rd, the thinking being I might just get over in 3rd instead of dropping to 2nd (I'm talking about my Ulster rep here with 4.9 axle currently). On the flat I potter along at 40 or 45 in top with no worries. It's the middling hills where the lower 3rd will slow me down, my strategy for those is speed up when I see them coming and take them at full tilt.
I agree keep your 5.25 axle, think a bit about where your potential tour may take you, and how you like to drive (for me when far from home slow and steady is the way) and then have a chat with Andrew if you feel some tweaks are needed.
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I have Andrew Bird's 'Andes' gears in the 3-speed gearbox of my 1929 RK saloon.
For me it works very well indeed. The car is now capable of 40mph in 2nd gear and comfortable at 30mph indefinitely.
I live in The Scottish Borders which is very hilly but the hills are only moderately steep and it copes easily with these at 30-35mph. With the original 2nd gear I was down to 20-25mph. It is also very useful to be able to hold 30mph comfortably in town.
However I found on some of Malcolm Parker's excursions in Yorkshire that it was not so happy on the very steep hills around there. This is because I had to change down to 1st much sooner than cars with the standard 2nd gear. I still climbed the hills OK, just rather slower then standard box, grinding up in 1st.
The Andes gear has another advantage. The dog for top gear is modified so that it engages much more easily. This makes changes up to top much faster and hence reduces the loss of speed on hills during the change. In fact it can be pushed straight through without ill effects if necessary.
Jim
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It more or less seems from some of the above and related posts that revs are often assessed by sound, which can be misleading.
Most owners decide some real or theoretical speed in top which they consider reasonable revs for their car to sustain. Without the need to know the actual revs, the equivalent speeds in the gears are quickly calculable from the gear box ratios. These speeds can be recalled for sustained hill climbing. The easy to remember 10, 20, 30, 50 is close to one grouping for the common 4 speed box.
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