21-05-2021, 01:34 PM
Hi,
Thank you for bringing this one up as I could do with bringing things up to date.
Having things made in the uk, in batches, has gotten harder and harder over the last 10 years.
Here is what I got to in the uk.
Most places dont want to make from billet, purely because of the time it takes up on the machine aprox 4 1/2 hour run time. They can make far more money working on other expensive jobs.
So it got to forging cranks at a run time of 1 1/2 hours. Here are the prices for making a batch run of of 50.
Forging tool with the same company as JB and phoenix £5,500
Each forging £130.00 plus vat.
Labour including intruding £450 plus vat. But this company is no longer available.
I had a second company, one if not the best crank manufacturers in the country. Offered to help me get going with the following prices.
£1,000 services for patterns etc etc. And matching £500.00 + vat per crank for a batch of 50. These would then be supplied with a full spec sheet.
The outcome was I could do this job in the uk at this price, and cover the risk of anything going wrong.
So I took everything to a uk company, that manufacturrs overseas.
This came out completely different.
I had to have a batch of 300, (yikes). But the price was low enough it was more than worth investigating.
We had agreed the following.
The company we were going to use already manufactures cranks for Toyota, 5,000 a year.
Forged crank.
Crack tested and an individual test certificate supplied. Nobody offers this in the uk, so we take the risk of new cranks having faults
before we fit them.
Nitrided to 40thou so it would take 2 regrinds, the only other cranks I know that are done to this is the hardly counterbalanced.
Stress relieved.
They would be supplied with a full spec sheet. (which all cranks should be, so you know what you are getting) rearly done in the uk.
I could have sold these cranks at a price of £750.00 to £800.00 and still make what I need to as a company.
But here is were it all got let down?
The overseas manufacturer could not get a supply of EN40b. As it is an old material used in crank manufacture.
We were offered the high spec chrome Mollie they use in modern day materials. Which is likely to be as good or better than EN40b. Which all the people I spoke the came to the same conclusion.
But, but, but. It all comes down to the ignorance of the lack of knowledge. And the chinese whispers of the internet.
Everyone expects cranks to be made of EN40b, so with they buy cranks made in new materials???? So will I be left with a pile of cranks and in large debts.
Two years ago, one of the new crank manufacturers had a crank break very quickly in a race engine. Those of you above will know all about this, I've seen the pictures of the engine, and my opinion only. There is no proof if the timing gear caused the crank to break. Or the crank broke and bust the timing gears. I understand there was alot of anger over it. And as the cranks were not crack tested from new. The forging company paid for the engine rebuild.
So were would I stand if this happend to me? Answer, YOU USED THE WRONG MATERIAL? Austin seven cranks should be EN40b. Even though the average owner is not well equipped to fit his own crank. He will do so. And blame the manufacturer for his mistakes.
The result i havent put an order in.
Tony.
Thank you for bringing this one up as I could do with bringing things up to date.
Having things made in the uk, in batches, has gotten harder and harder over the last 10 years.
Here is what I got to in the uk.
Most places dont want to make from billet, purely because of the time it takes up on the machine aprox 4 1/2 hour run time. They can make far more money working on other expensive jobs.
So it got to forging cranks at a run time of 1 1/2 hours. Here are the prices for making a batch run of of 50.
Forging tool with the same company as JB and phoenix £5,500
Each forging £130.00 plus vat.
Labour including intruding £450 plus vat. But this company is no longer available.
I had a second company, one if not the best crank manufacturers in the country. Offered to help me get going with the following prices.
£1,000 services for patterns etc etc. And matching £500.00 + vat per crank for a batch of 50. These would then be supplied with a full spec sheet.
The outcome was I could do this job in the uk at this price, and cover the risk of anything going wrong.
So I took everything to a uk company, that manufacturrs overseas.
This came out completely different.
I had to have a batch of 300, (yikes). But the price was low enough it was more than worth investigating.
We had agreed the following.
The company we were going to use already manufactures cranks for Toyota, 5,000 a year.
Forged crank.
Crack tested and an individual test certificate supplied. Nobody offers this in the uk, so we take the risk of new cranks having faults
before we fit them.
Nitrided to 40thou so it would take 2 regrinds, the only other cranks I know that are done to this is the hardly counterbalanced.
Stress relieved.
They would be supplied with a full spec sheet. (which all cranks should be, so you know what you are getting) rearly done in the uk.
I could have sold these cranks at a price of £750.00 to £800.00 and still make what I need to as a company.
But here is were it all got let down?
The overseas manufacturer could not get a supply of EN40b. As it is an old material used in crank manufacture.
We were offered the high spec chrome Mollie they use in modern day materials. Which is likely to be as good or better than EN40b. Which all the people I spoke the came to the same conclusion.
But, but, but. It all comes down to the ignorance of the lack of knowledge. And the chinese whispers of the internet.
Everyone expects cranks to be made of EN40b, so with they buy cranks made in new materials???? So will I be left with a pile of cranks and in large debts.
Two years ago, one of the new crank manufacturers had a crank break very quickly in a race engine. Those of you above will know all about this, I've seen the pictures of the engine, and my opinion only. There is no proof if the timing gear caused the crank to break. Or the crank broke and bust the timing gears. I understand there was alot of anger over it. And as the cranks were not crack tested from new. The forging company paid for the engine rebuild.
So were would I stand if this happend to me? Answer, YOU USED THE WRONG MATERIAL? Austin seven cranks should be EN40b. Even though the average owner is not well equipped to fit his own crank. He will do so. And blame the manufacturer for his mistakes.
The result i havent put an order in.
Tony.