Starting Handles for Magneto Cars

[Hedd_Jones]

Starting Handles for Magneto Cars

When father found the 1928 Gordon England Cup rolling chassis and body remains that I now have, one of the bits (in a skip) that obviously belonged was an aluminium starting handle guide for a mag car (it is fitted with a mag engine)

This is it.







I had never seen an aluminium version before, but I have been assured by a number of people that some cars in 1928 had an aluminium guide. Anyway, its knackered, a groove worn it it from rubbing the cowl, its cracked, and twisted. Though I dare say my mate the tig welder could mend it, and the twist could be accommodated by slotting the holes. If anyone has a photo of a complete assembly, I would be grateful to see them, in case I decide to overhaul it. I have looked at a lot of Austin parts lists and can't find one where this type is illustrated. Interestingly the smaller bore is at the front, so I'm not even sure how the handle shaft and spring works. (The bore diameters are the opposite way round the the parts described below).

Anyway, the engine is now unstuck, and having inspected the bores, big end bearings, and reground the valves, I have concluded that it is pretty fresh. Now also having 2 mags to go on it there might be a chance of getting it running soon. The bacon slicer is pretty rusty, so I have been weighing up a later rear facing starter, but also the starting handle. When I got the engine, there was no nut/dog on the crank, so I have found one, and fitted it. It was the longer of the 2 types I had in the spares, and the bottom fan pulley fitted perfectly (I assume the short nuts/dogs are for cars with no fans?)

Anyway, I've been on the lookout for a starting handle for some time, and have collected a lot of bits so I can sort. I've got loads and loads of the early coil versions, but little in the way of mag stuff. Swapping some bits got me a butchered and bent handle, and then Tony put a handle and guide on e-bay which I bought.

Having bought a spring, and weighing how the handle and guide go together, and how the handle part is retained, my suspicion was that the handle part is too short for the guide, and Mr Dunford Jr confirmed my thoughts on Facebook last night, within an hour of posting the photo.







Last pic shows the handle fully pushed in against the spring, and how far the dog end sticks out. I do not believe there is enough meat to fit a grub screw to retain. And will it reach the engine? if it does, with a grub screw retainer it will barely be able to move back out, out of the way.

Clearly I need to fit engine back in the chassis, mount the guide, and see if it reaches, and perhaps extend to suit, or perhaps doctor some of the other bits I have to sort, however I would like the completed article to look like an Austin original, rather than a figment of my imagination. I am trying to get as many of the right bits for this car, because of what it is.

Parts list illustrations, for these style bits looks like this



Would anyone be kind enough to take detailed pictures of an unmolested original example for me? I have found a little on the web (including here), but mostly home made, or obviously butchered examples.

This one looks home made, but is certainly longer in the shaft than my bits.


The weld and grinding marks suggest that this is also remanufactured, but again is longer in the shaft than mine (The annotation on the photo is not mine)



Last question, the ali guide clearly has a groove for the handle 'park'. The iron Guide above doesn't. I'm told that not all mag cars had a handle that would park, but clearly my 1928 car did originally, so I'd like to put a groove in my iron casting to allow for this. Would anyone be kind enough to take a picture of the Austin 'groove' so I can replicate please?.

And last picture, these are just some of the bits I have to go at. Top to bottom, Early coil assembly, with the correct dog style (same diameter for the most part too). Mag handle (bent), with a nasty welded adaptor stuck up its arse. New spring (fits the shaft and guide below perfect thanks David). Mag handle and shaft (possibly too short?). Iron Guide.  Ali Guide.

[Parazine]

Hedd,

Your Iron guide looks longer that either of mine. Wyatt shows that in April 1928, the starting handle was extended for fitting a radiator muff (Chassis 57295), could it be that this entailed a longer guide and handle shaft??

If that's the case, you may be able to find a shorter iron guide that suits your short handle. Of course it could be that the handle has been shortened in an attempt to re-grind the end to make it engage with the dog.

I've never seen the alloy version, although I heard that they exist, they are probably fragile and most were scrapped many years ago.

These handles are problematic, I was fortunate that the Top Hat had a good, original one but it took a lot of searching to come up with the components for the Chummy. Even now, I doubt that you could actually start either engine on the handle......

Tim R

[Hedd_Jones]

Chassis number for the car is 61xxxx from memory, so it would be a longer ine in that case. 

The ali housing is broadly the same length as the iron one.

[Robin Gooders]

Hi Hedd,

I have a 27 special with a mag engine. I just went out to the garage for a look. The handle on mine is the type with a cotter pin. Like the top one in your photo. There is only about a 3/4 inch clearance between the rear face of the handle and the Radiator shroud. I.e the handle only has to push in about 3/4 " against the spring to engage the dogs. I have a short stud/ grub screw, in place of your cap head screw, to retain the handle. There are two slots cut into the cast iron handle guide in on the rear face to enable the grub screw to engage in the slot for parking the handle horizontally on the left or right. I've trie to photograph the set-up, but it's no easy to get a decent image down in the depths of the engine bay. But I'll have a go at posting some pics if I can work out how to

Hope this helps

Robin

[Robin Gooders]

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[Steve kay]

   
I am following this with interest, so that I will know what to do when the embryonic Chummy reaches some sort of completion. Here are the three guides on the shelf, one of which will be put to use.

[Mike Costigan]

From Tony Johns in Australia:

 Once again I am having issues with the Austin Seven Friends site.

If you have time this photo of my Chummy shows the original alloy crank handle casting that was on my Chummy back in 1960. Ignore the plastic sign on the windscreen, it is a Holden body and one of the last of the magneto engined cars prion to the change to coil. Engine # M69139. The bar between the headlights is also non standard, used to mount a Lucas Flamethrower for night time car trials.

Now owned by Tony Press.


   

[Tony Press]

This 1928 Chummy is now is fitted with a later 1928 Coil Engine M 71801- put in the car some twenty years ago . 

I have the original Magneto engine M 69139 sitting on the floor in the 'workshop'. 

We just gave it a quick 93rd birthday clean, put oil down the cylinders and in the sump.

I don't have the 'aluminium' ? Magneto crank handle mount which Tony would have removed when he fitted a 'racing' engine many years ago.   

As far as I remember  it didn't have a crank handle. 


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