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+--- Thread: Steering Arm routine bring up (/showthread.php?tid=559)
RE: Steering Arm routine bring up - Tony Betts - 20-12-2017
i think its worth remembering austin never changed the shape of the steering arm in its 17 year manufacture.
but he must have either felt there was a problem, because over the 17 years they did get thicker (larger).
either that or as the cars got heavier, he felt the arms should be thicker to handle the extra weight.
why didnt the shape of the arm change?? perhaps austin had the foresite to design the arm in a way that when it brakes, it will brake under maximum load. roundabouts, parking, turning at lower speeds.
out of all the arms known to brake, im sure most if not all were as above.
26 years into austin 7s now, and ive never heard of a serious accident from a broken steering arm.
i know ive crack tested 100s literally, and an alarming amount are cracked. although at least 50% of the cracks only show on the forging mark. so when the forging mark is filed away and polished. they are fine to use.
for me im happy with an original that ive checked is ok at that time.
or david does a nice beefy new steering arm. the price isnt high.
its down to the individual.
i have one of davids new sports arms, ill fit it to the blown ulster if the original isnt good enough to use.
this part i hope david doesnt mind me printing. because i dont see new steering arms as a fit and forget item. if i use the new arm. i would still polish it and crack test it from time to time.
tony
RE: Steering Arm routine bring up - Chris KC - 20-12-2017
I'd like to step firmly into the middle ground here. In the modern motor industry, parts are classified by failure mode. If a single part failure can result in a fatal accident, the design is changed (as far as reasonably practicable) so that there is some kind of fail-safe. If not practicable, a healthy safety margin is applied to the part strength. It is thus highly improbable (I didn't say impossible) that the failure of a single part can result in a fatal accident, even though plastic bits and electronic items may be falling off by the dozen.
For a part which could immobilise the car, or scare the driver without necessarily killing him, an acceptable failure rate would be established - let's say 0.5% over vehicle lifetime. Needless to say, modern cars are not expected to last 90 or 100 years.
To claim that an Austin Seven is as safe as a modern car is a little misleading. To scaremonger people into believing they are death traps is equally misleading. Regular maintenance is without doubt a good idea, as is keeping an eye on components which could lead to a serious accident should they fail.
Personally, I worry a good deal more about other road users. As is well known, all those 'safety' systems only enable them to drive faster and closer...
RE: Steering Arm routine bring up - merlinart - 20-12-2017
(20-12-2017, 07:43 PM)Ian Williams Wrote: Unreliable, fragile and dangerous? Well, you have to compare apples to apples. As several members have already said any of us who have been around sevens for years will have an appreciation and understanding of just how bloody good the cars are, yes they have their weaknesses, and yes there are design aspects that with the benefit of todays knowledge could have been better. If we are talking about design, put into the context of 1922 the seven is an absolute triumph and masterclass in design, and the yard stick from which all modern's developed! And you can't compare a seven with a modern that is ridiculous, very few moderns would make it through some of the trials sections and come out unscathed! If you compare a seven with ANY of its competitors from the same era, name just one that could challenge a seven for strength, reliability, safety and versatility as well as being extremely user friendly
Newer less experienced owners should to be made aware of the safety aspects which need to be checked, these are 90 year old cars lets not forget that, but there is no excuse for sensationalising these points, and worse attempting to provoke people for amusement or otherwise is unforgivable.
I have to agree with you entirely especially your first paragraph.
I am new to Sevens and if I hadn't been made aware of potential cracks to the arm, it might never have occurred to me to check it, and to date, I haven't yet, but will, and as a matter of course will replace it.
On re-reading Bob's posts, I don't think that he intentionally set out to provoke or sensationalise for amusement though?
Provoking comment and debate is always healthy, no matter how some might read it or understand it.
Clearly it is incumbent on owners in the UK at least, to be as vigilant as possible particularly when we need not MOT such vehicles. Personally, I think the idea of not having to have an annual MOT check is absurd, however, and MOT tester is most unlikely to detect a crack anyway.
Arthur
RE: Steering Arm routine bring up - Steve Jones - 20-12-2017
Quote: Bob Culver
It is indisputable that compared to many others and particularly moderns, Sevens are relatively fragile, unreliable and dangerous. As with riding motor bikes, the fun is attended with some heightened risk. But some risks can be avoided.
Here we are, not avoiding risks in our relatively fragile, unreliable and dangerous Seven. I have never had a modern car that would cope with the abuse this Seven gets!!
Herfordshire09photo.jpg (Size: 302.02 KB / Downloads: 436)
Derbyshire 2013a.JPG (Size: 37.2 KB / Downloads: 434)
We should really be more careful!
Steve
RE: Steering Arm routine bring up - Ian Williams - 21-12-2017
Steve, shame on you for posting such pictures, are you trying to encourage people to indulge in irresponsible reckless behaviour like this. Before we know it there will be whole groups of seven owners descending onto tracks and trail across the country, or even worse attempting to race the dam things!.......You will have total carnage and anarchy, what were you thinking, lock it away before anyone gets hurt!
As a foot note I nearly got killed in my seven a little over four years during an accident whilst racing....I know, I know what was I thinking, but nobody had warned me how frightfully fragile and dangerous the cars were then! My car rolled four times at somewhere around 75 to 80 MPH, it is testament to how strong the Austin 7 components are that not a single chassis component broke! All four wheels were buckled, the front axle twisted horribly, steering and track rod arms also seriously bent, numerous other items damaged and the bodywork none too happy, but none of these extremely fragile components actually broke, not one!
And Mr Merlin with respect, yes I believe we would all agree that provoking thought and debate is healthy, nobody is disputing that, maybe some of us myself included have been a bit flippant! However you have not been here long enough to understand the point some of us are raising, so please do not pass judgement or get upset about things you do not yet fully understand.
RE: Steering Arm routine bring up - nrzam - 21-12-2017
"However you have not been here long enough to understand the point some of us are raising, so please do not pass judgement or get upset about things you do not yet fully understand."
This sentence makes me feel a bit uncomfortable - surely everyone is entitled to comment in a respectful way and to be agreed or disagreed with with equal respect.
Please help the newcomers like me understand points rather than apparently trying to exclude us because we are new owners of Austin hardware (and therefore quite important to the ongoing health of this group of friends).
nrzam
RE: Steering Arm routine bring up - Andy Bennett - 21-12-2017
I know its Xmas and all that but I just have to say that, as a 10 year member I have seen a progressively less covert, shall we call it 'bullying', of a certain member.
Whenever he says anything I simply know that there will be a small number of members guaranteed to disagree and to make progressively less subtle negative comments about his opinion, knowledge, motivations etc. Disagreement and debate is essential but when this person is involved this it usually includes a move to then patronise those who suggest there is validity in the subject or opinion, thereby bullying them into not questioning the 'anti' position that 'must of course be shared by all'.
Sorry but I don't share. I have my own mind and my own thoughts and will make my own assessment from the combined inputs of a the learned members of this forum.
Bob's first post was a useful one on a well recognised and discussed topic, suggesting a sticky for a safety related item. Provocation then guarantees people are pushed towards more extreme positions. But, if you read that first post it is perfectly reasonable, in my opinion.
Zetomagneto's earlier response seems to sum up why this is an important subject: 'While I am enjoying the humour on this thread, poor old Bobs thread seems to have no attention paid despite the importance. I knew a chap in the 70s who had a bad accident in a Nippy due to steering failure, his girlfriend passenger didn't fare to well having hit a laminated Windscreen.'
Cyber bullying is a hot topic of the moment, we really don't need it on the Friends site.
Happy Christmas
Andy B
RE: Steering Arm routine bring up - John Raeburn - 22-12-2017
(17-12-2017, 06:31 PM)Ruairidh Dunford Wrote:Hi Alan, Sorry for the delay in replying.(17-12-2017, 06:17 PM)John Raeburn Wrote:(17-12-2017, 04:40 PM)Alan Wrote: Just as a matter of interest, I know it's serious if it happens, but, how many people have actually had a steering arm failure?
Me!!!
Can you share the details please John?
1970 in a '34 box saloon, leaving a roundabout the steering arm decided to let go, the steering wheel suddenly went slack and I was deposited head down in the passengers foot well ! I think it must have been instinct to grab the hand brake just as we mounted the curb, the fence helped me come to a stop. A passing motorist came to my aid as I was surveying the damage to the front wing, instead of asking if I was alright he said "If you'r dumping that Ill have the head lights"
But he did give me a lift home.
Not an experience I would recommend, which is why I am very reluctant to drive a Seven without one of Davids replacement arms.
J
RE: Steering Arm routine bring up - Ruairidh Dunford - 22-12-2017
Thanks for that John.
RE: Steering Arm routine bring up - Tony Betts - 22-12-2017
Hi john,
an experience nobody wants to go through. I'm happy to here you wasn't injured.
Perhaps Austins, "design falt " worked in the way it was intended. Under load on a roundabout or in a car park.
If Austins design fault wasn't there it may have been far worse at 50mph.
May I ask if and when the arm was tested before it gave way. As these cracks let alone a failier normally take years to happen.
And also what checks you have planned in the future for the new arm, or will it be a fit and forget item.
I know the questions are controversial, but they are only in interest to how these parts were used in the past, and how they will be used in the future.
Tony.