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Sump plate
#11
(12-03-2018, 10:22 PM)Tony Press Wrote:
(12-03-2018, 02:57 PM)Charles P Wrote: In my pressure fed engine I don't need the oil sieve/filter because it's got a full flow filter. However I have replaced the sieve/filter with a 1/4 steel plate with some 5/8 holes in it. My thinking was to add some strength and have a horizontal baffle against oil surge.

Since the engine is going back together now I'm questioning the "strength" value. Would a lighter baffle be sensible? 

What have other people fitted?

Thanks 

Charles

I don't believe a 'bolted on' plate would add anything to the  crankcase stiffness !

Cheers, Tony.
If it did you'd probably break the engine mounts off...flexible mounting obviates the perceived need to stiffen.

(12-03-2018, 08:10 PM)merlinart Wrote:
(12-03-2018, 05:14 PM)Chris KC Wrote: I believe it's possible to fix oil leaks to all intents and purposes without resorting to such measures - I'd save the weight (unless you fear an ME109 might have a go at you from below? In which event a bit of armour plate has much to commend it). Personally I just fit the strainer, if only to catch some of the bits in case of engine disintegration.

A Bf 109 if you don't mind! What about an Me 110 though, a G, with 20mm "Schrage Musik" kanonen!

Arthur

My uncle Charles was shot down by an ME110, I recall being most impressed by how understated his account of the event was. It might have made a more entertaining story had he been flying a 1924 Chummy...
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#12
(13-03-2018, 09:06 AM)Chris KC Wrote:
(12-03-2018, 10:22 PM)Tony Press Wrote:
(12-03-2018, 02:57 PM)Charles P Wrote: In my pressure fed engine I don't need the oil sieve/filter because it's got a full flow filter. However I have replaced the sieve/filter with a 1/4 steel plate with some 5/8 holes in it. My thinking was to add some strength and have a horizontal baffle against oil surge.

Since the engine is going back together now I'm questioning the "strength" value. Would a lighter baffle be sensible? 

What have other people fitted?

Thanks 

Charles

I don't believe a 'bolted on' plate would add anything to the  crankcase stiffness !

Cheers, Tony.
If it did you'd probably break the engine mounts off...flexible mounting obviates the perceived need to stiffen.

(12-03-2018, 08:10 PM)merlinart Wrote:
(12-03-2018, 05:14 PM)Chris KC Wrote: I believe it's possible to fix oil leaks to all intents and purposes without resorting to such measures - I'd save the weight (unless you fear an ME109 might have a go at you from below? In which event a bit of armour plate has much to commend it). Personally I just fit the strainer, if only to catch some of the bits in case of engine disintegration.

A Bf 109 if you don't mind! What about an Me 110 though, a G, with 20mm "Schrage Musik" kanonen!

Arthur

My uncle Charles was shot down by an ME110, I recall being most impressed by how understated his account of the event was. It might have made a more entertaining story had he been flying a 1924 Chummy...

How interesting, have you exact details, I have the Nachtjagd war diaries and several other cross referencing night fighting books and most likely could identify which German pilot shot him down....assuming this was a night attack and he was on Lancasters/Halifaxes etc. For my sins, I specialise in this kind of stuff. More and more data is coming to light even after almost 80 years.
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#13
I have seen on other makes with 3 main bearings and insufficiently rigid crankcases attempts to stiffen the case with various inserts and girdles. But with 2 bearings of little consequence. Early Javelin cars had a frail aluminium baffle. When the factory was testing for competition a bump was felt and when dismantled long after the baffle was found rolled up into a tight ball!

Other makes invariably have a coarse filter to collect valve cotters etc and nowadays, silicon.
With the stock Seven great care is necessary to avoid cork pieces, silicon blobs etc below the filter gauze.
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#14
   
A pickup filter will save  the pump from any damage.
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#15
(13-03-2018, 09:26 AM)merlinart Wrote:
(13-03-2018, 09:06 AM)Chris KC Wrote:
(12-03-2018, 10:22 PM)Tony Press Wrote:
(12-03-2018, 02:57 PM)Charles P Wrote: In my pressure fed engine I don't need the oil sieve/filter because it's got a full flow filter. However I have replaced the sieve/filter with a 1/4 steel plate with some 5/8 holes in it. My thinking was to add some strength and have a horizontal baffle against oil surge.

Since the engine is going back together now I'm questioning the "strength" value. Would a lighter baffle be sensible? 

What have other people fitted?

Thanks 

Charles

I don't believe a 'bolted on' plate would add anything to the  crankcase stiffness !

Cheers, Tony.
If it did you'd probably break the engine mounts off...flexible mounting obviates the perceived need to stiffen.

(12-03-2018, 08:10 PM)merlinart Wrote:
(12-03-2018, 05:14 PM)Chris KC Wrote: I believe it's possible to fix oil leaks to all intents and purposes without resorting to such measures - I'd save the weight (unless you fear an ME109 might have a go at you from below? In which event a bit of armour plate has much to commend it). Personally I just fit the strainer, if only to catch some of the bits in case of engine disintegration.

A Bf 109 if you don't mind! What about an Me 110 though, a G, with 20mm "Schrage Musik" kanonen!

Arthur

My uncle Charles was shot down by an ME110, I recall being most impressed by how understated his account of the event was. It might have made a more entertaining story had he been flying a 1924 Chummy...

How interesting, have you exact details, I have the Nachtjagd war diaries and several other cross referencing night fighting books and most likely could identify which German pilot shot him down....assuming this was a night attack and he was on Lancasters/Halifaxes etc. For my sins, I specialise in this kind of stuff. More and more data is coming to light even after almost 80 years.

If others will kindly indulge the thread detour -

Sgt. Charlton Haw. 504Sqn. 27th September. Haw destroyed a Bf110 before being shot down over Bristol at 12:25hrs by Oblt. Roedel of 4/JG27. His Hurricane P3415 landed at Gammons Farm, Kilmington. Haw was unhurt, his Hurricane was damaged but repairable.

n.b. 'Uncle' in the loosest sense - family friends since long before my childhood. Still in touch with his widow Audrey who remains a very dear friend.
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#16
(13-03-2018, 02:26 PM)Chris KC Wrote:
(13-03-2018, 09:26 AM)merlinart Wrote:
(13-03-2018, 09:06 AM)Chris KC Wrote:
(12-03-2018, 10:22 PM)Tony Press Wrote:
(12-03-2018, 02:57 PM)Charles P Wrote: In my pressure fed engine I don't need the oil sieve/filter because it's got a full flow filter. However I have replaced the sieve/filter with a 1/4 steel plate with some 5/8 holes in it. My thinking was to add some strength and have a horizontal baffle against oil surge.

Since the engine is going back together now I'm questioning the "strength" value. Would a lighter baffle be sensible? 

What have other people fitted?

Thanks 

Charles

I don't believe a 'bolted on' plate would add anything to the  crankcase stiffness !

Cheers, Tony.
If it did you'd probably break the engine mounts off...flexible mounting obviates the perceived need to stiffen.

(12-03-2018, 08:10 PM)merlinart Wrote:
(12-03-2018, 05:14 PM)Chris KC Wrote: I believe it's possible to fix oil leaks to all intents and purposes without resorting to such measures - I'd save the weight (unless you fear an ME109 might have a go at you from below? In which event a bit of armour plate has much to commend it). Personally I just fit the strainer, if only to catch some of the bits in case of engine disintegration.

A Bf 109 if you don't mind! What about an Me 110 though, a G, with 20mm "Schrage Musik" kanonen!

Arthur

My uncle Charles was shot down by an ME110, I recall being most impressed by how understated his account of the event was. It might have made a more entertaining story had he been flying a 1924 Chummy...

How interesting, have you exact details, I have the Nachtjagd war diaries and several other cross referencing night fighting books and most likely could identify which German pilot shot him down....assuming this was a night attack and he was on Lancasters/Halifaxes etc. For my sins, I specialise in this kind of stuff. More and more data is coming to light even after almost 80 years.

If others will kindly indulge the thread detour -

Sgt. Charlton Haw. 504Sqn. 27th September. Haw destroyed a Bf110 before being shot down over Bristol at 12:25hrs by Oblt. Roedel of 4/JG27. His Hurricane P3415 landed at Gammons Farm, Kilmington. Haw was unhurt, his Hurricane was damaged but repairable.

n.b. 'Uncle' in the loosest sense - family friends since long before my childhood. Still in touch with his widow Audrey who remains a very dear friend.

I'm struggling with the idea that he was shot down by Oberleutnant Roedel of 4./JG 27

Well, JG 27 was a fighter unit flying Bf 109E variants, they had no Bf 110s at all, since Bf 110s were Zerstorer (destroyer) Geschwader (wings) and would have been annotated ZG. So, Oberleutnant Gustav Roedel (Rodel with umlaut over the O) was indeed with 4.JG 27, the 4 being the 4th Staffel (squadron), 2nd Gruppe, of Jagdgeschwader 27. My records for JG 27 for 27/9/1940 (assuming your record to be 1940) shows Rodel shooting down two Hurricanes that day over Kent and East London, indeed there are no records to show that 4./JG 27 were anywhere near Bristol. How odd. The book "Men of the Battle of Britain" gives a good mini biography of Haw and mentions both his claim for the Bf 110 and the fact he was shot down, however, 4./JG 27 were certainly no where near Bristol that day, most certainly being over Kent/|London, so I'm not sure where that piece of information has come from. I would be most interested to see this, if you know where it has come from. I have just listened to him on the IWM website oral history reel, and seen a wikipedia entry stating that he was probably shot down by Rodel, however the Bundesarchiv material sources show that no JG 27 aircraft were near Bristol. Unfortunately you can't take wikipedia as gospel truth at all.

Rodel was a very famous German pilot who had fought in the Condor Legion in the Spanish Civil War. After the Battle of Britain he fought in North Africa. He shot down a total of 95 aircraft.

All rather strange. Sorry to be pedantic, but I have over 650 books on the Luftwaffe as well as many more in general aviation wise, and wherever, I like to cross reference as much as possible.

You're right, maybe he ought to have been in a chummy!

Arthur
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#17
Sorry Arthur I don't know where that deduction came from. I'm afraid little by little the internet is scrambling all knowledge into uncertainty rather than the other way around.
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#18
(13-03-2018, 10:44 PM)Chris KC Wrote: Sorry Arthur I don't know where that deduction came from. I'm afraid little by little the internet is scrambling all knowledge into uncertainty rather than the other way around.

Yes, blame Wikepedia/Amazon/Google/facebook....all other social media trash, and of course Trump, plus the increasing ability of the human mind to negate the power of analysis of any kind. Long live cynicism, satire, scepticism, rationalism, empiricism, all forms of analytic thought blah blah blah!

I must say though that Haw's interview available on the IWM website is very interesting indeed.

Arthur
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#19
(13-03-2018, 01:20 PM)Terrytuned Wrote: A pickup filter will save  the pump from any damage.

Terry, excellent work, really like that
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#20
   
A pickup filter can also be used with a std pump and a semi deep sump a 10mm pipe fitting is silver soldered to the pump base plate.
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