Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Austin Atlantic Green RAL codes and new 1932 Belco info
#1
The story has advanced a bit and the two lines of enquiry have come up with neighbouring RAL codes, so I think we are pretty nearly there. The Austin 10 Drivers Club are working on a publication to interpret their copies of the 1932 colour cards into modern paint code equivalents. Still need to find a 65 which has Atlantic Green paint remains...

[Only registered and activated users can see the links Click here to register]
65/Nippy resource archive: [Only registered and activated users can see the links Click here to register]
Reply
#2
Have you seen the Atlantic Green BS 6-067 in the BS 2660 range?
Reply
#3
(12-04-2018, 12:53 PM)Austin Carr Wrote: Have you seen the Atlantic Green BS 6-067 in the BS 2660 range?

there is that greyer one, and another paler Atlantic Green which emerged through BLMC and then became a Heritage Landrover colour. Perhaps if there had been more cars purchased and if the colour had actually been properly recorded, the evolution may have been simpler?

There is a lot of sea to influence such things, seemingly....
65/Nippy resource archive: [Only registered and activated users can see the links Click here to register]
Reply
#4
(11-04-2018, 08:43 AM)The Austin 10 Drivers Club are working on a publication to interpret their copies of the 1932 colour cards into modern paint code equivalents. Wrote: The problem is this is not the right way to do it. I've been matching colours for 10 years, and over 1,000 colours later we've only had one that came is as a dead match to a modern standard.

It depends on what you want. If you want an accurate recreation of the original colour then it needs to be done in a laboratory properly (such as I did with the set the Clubs Association had on loan). If you want a roughly accurate recreation then a rough match to a modern standard is possible.

I find it frustrating when the technology exists to do a job right that things are still being for want of a better term 'bodged'. That isn't meant to put down those doing the work at the A10DC but I can't think of a better term.

I understand that most people want a RAL code to take to a local paint factors and get made fast and cheap - but these cars are coming up for nearly a century old and we don't tend to compromise on the mechanics, so why compromise on the colour?
Reply
#5
Adam - contact them direct - or I've previously suggested yesterday on FB that if you emailed me, then I'd forward an email to their person.

You cannot comment on a report that isn't out yet through a very short summary of a third party? I will also amend that highlighted sentence as it doesn't really adequately say what they have done, in light of your post above.

Where there is no direct car evidence (from under hinges and so on; protected from light and other environmental factors) there may not be a perfect solution; Belco cards are possibly not all perfect after 80 years (they darken or lighten) and print samples are useful only as supporting information unless there is no information at all! (i.e. even more fraught with error).

With Atlantic Green, it would be folly to go down too technical a route when the primary evidence is not good enough to allow it, surely? (You may disagree, but I find it almost a marketing exercise to bring up the possibility for identifying other cars to allow more rigorous forensic processes to be adopted?)
65/Nippy resource archive: [Only registered and activated users can see the links Click here to register]
Reply
#6
(13-04-2018, 03:39 PM)JonE Wrote: Adam - contact them direct - or I've previously suggested yesterday on FB that if you emailed me, then I'd forward an email to their person.

You cannot comment on a report that isn't out yet through a very short summary of a third party? I will also amend that highlighted sentence as it doesn't really adequately say what they have done, in light of your post above.

Where there is no direct car evidence (from under hinges and so on; protected from light and other environmental factors) there may not be a perfect solution; Belco cards are possibly not all perfect after 80 years (they darken or lighten) and print samples are useful only as supporting information unless there is no information at all! (i.e. even more fraught with error).

With Atlantic Green, it would be folly to go down too technical a route when the primary evidence is not good enough to allow it, surely? (You may disagree, but I find it almost a marketing exercise to bring up the possibility for identifying other cars to allow more rigorous forensic processes to be adopted?)

I can say for certain that it isn't the best way to go about the job. True the research isn't out yet, but tentative enquiries over a year ago came to nothing, they are going to do it their way. I can comment from personal experience and industry knowledge on the correct way to match colours, it is after all my job. I have no axe to grind I've borrowed a set of cards and done my work, it's just nice to compare results and if certain expertise is available why not use it? It isn't forensic by any means and of course all results are open to interpretation, different pigment systems from different manufacturers also throw up variations on 'standards' like RAL and British Standard. Colour is truly a messy business.

The Belco cards depend on the set in question, degradation will vary on a number of factors, the set I had in my hands was exceptionally well preserved and had been kept boxed in a draw for nearly the entirety of their existence. Bar one very special chart I have here (Thomas Parsons 1926 Automotive Colours) those Belco cards represent the best I've seen over the years. I believe the A10DC set are not so well preserved.

On your Atlantic Green, I applaud what you've done and you are right there isn't a technical way to get the colour. For me at that stage I stop until I can find something definite. What you have done is as I'm sure you'll agree a good guess at the right shade. It doesn't look wrong, and to be fair when matching old colours that is half the battle, some of the 50s/60s car colours just don't sit right on earlier cars it can be very hard to explain. I like what you've done and think the car looks very nice.

It certainly isn't a marketing exercise from me. Specific pre war car shades probably account for less than 0.1% of what I do, but I am a Vintage car owner and the idea of building a library of authentic colours appeals to me as an enthusiast. For the effort involved in putting anything like this together it doesn't make huge amounts of business sense. It would be nice to have consensus in the Austin world on specific shades (like we sort of do in the Railway world, and nearly do in the Traction Engine market).
Reply
#7
sorry - that last bit was meant to suggest I thought MY project was a largely marketing exercise for the COLOUR! - I wasn't denigrating your intentions! :-)
65/Nippy resource archive: [Only registered and activated users can see the links Click here to register]
Reply
#8
(13-04-2018, 04:12 PM)Adam Brown Wrote:
(13-04-2018, 03:39 PM)JonE Wrote: Adam - contact them direct - or I've previously suggested yesterday on FB that if you emailed me, then I'd forward an email to their person.

You cannot comment on a report that isn't out yet through a very short summary of a third party? I will also amend that highlighted sentence as it doesn't really adequately say what they have done, in light of your post above.

Where there is no direct car evidence (from under hinges and so on; protected from light and other environmental factors) there may not be a perfect solution; Belco cards are possibly not all perfect after 80 years (they darken or lighten) and print samples are useful only as supporting information unless there is no information at all! (i.e. even more fraught with error).

With Atlantic Green, it would be folly to go down too technical a route when the primary evidence is not good enough to allow it, surely? (You may disagree, but I find it almost a marketing exercise to bring up the possibility for identifying other cars to allow more rigorous forensic processes to be adopted?)

I can say for certain that it isn't the best way to go about the job. True the research isn't out yet, but tentative enquiries over a year ago came to nothing, they are going to do it their way. I can comment from personal experience and industry knowledge on the correct way to match colours, it is after all my job. I have no axe to grind I've borrowed a set of cards and done my work, it's just nice to compare results and if certain expertise is available why not use it? It isn't forensic by any means and of course all results are open to interpretation, different pigment systems from different manufacturers also throw up variations on 'standards' like RAL and British Standard. Colour is truly a messy business.

The Belco cards depend on the set in question, degradation will vary on a number of factors, the set I had in my hands was exceptionally well preserved and had been kept boxed in a draw for nearly the entirety of their existence. Bar one very special chart I have here (Thomas Parsons 1926 Automotive Colours) those Belco cards represent the best I've seen over the years. I believe the A10DC set are not so well preserved.

On your Atlantic Green, I applaud what you've done and you are right there isn't a technical way to get the colour. For me at that stage I stop until I can find something definite. What you have done is as I'm sure you'll agree a good guess at the right shade. It doesn't look wrong, and to be fair when matching old colours that is half the battle, some of the 50s/60s car colours just don't sit right on earlier cars it can be very hard to explain. I like what you've done and think the car looks very nice.

It certainly isn't a marketing exercise from me. Specific pre war car shades probably account for less than 0.1% of what I do, but I am a Vintage car owner and the idea of building a library of authentic colours appeals to me as an enthusiast. For the effort involved in putting anything like this together it doesn't make huge amounts of business sense. It would be nice to have consensus in the Austin world on specific shades (like we sort of do in the Railway world, and nearly do in the Traction Engine market).

I am only an interested onlooker in this colour debate but from reading I believe the RAL scheme wasn't introduced in Europe until 1927 and then I think only for matte colours until post war, so gloss auto paints wouldn't be included.

British colour standards pre war don't seem to reference automobile colours at all either.

This would suggest that trying to match a 1930's Austin Motor Company car colour is fraught with difficulty - the paint colour on an original vehicle body would have surely changed over 80 years and the printed colour swatches seem to be equally transient.

Just my thoughts.

Cheers, Tony.
Reply
#9
It is all very difficult. Sometimes a modern standard ends up being the same as a historic colour. It is rare though.

The colour swatches from the era generally survive fairly well. Most are boxed, or in a fan that is kept closed. They are usually reverse painted acetate sheet which gives a bit more protection. A box of colour swatches in good order is the best you are going to get, samples on cars are more likely to vary.

With historic colours usual practice is to do what research you can and then plant your flag against a specific shade to standardise to. So get a Westminster Green sample, if it looks acceptable call that the standard version and have variations for those who desire it slightly different
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)